Difficoltà su misto e ghiaccio

[Sholkenar]

Spesso leggendo delle recensioni di imprese alpinistiche in alta quota (ad esempio su alp o pareti o vertical) leggo di gradazioni di vie che non conosco... Ad esempio MI5 o WI4 o M5 (sono solo esempi), qualcuno sapremme indicarmi il link a una tabella che ne indichi le caratteristiche o le difficoltà oppure può farmi uno schema per capire a cosa si va incontro? Ringrazio fin da subito.
PS. Non so se è la sezione più adatta

[ICE&DRY]

WI è l'abbreviazione di Waterfall Ice, ed il numero che la segue è la difficoltà tecnica relativo ad una cascata di ghiaccio..
M è l'abbreviazione di Mixte, utilizzata per le vie di dry tooling

[Sholkenar]

Ma se io leggo M11 che differenza ha rispetto a un M10 o un M8... Ossia in cosa consistono le difficoltà tecniche?

[ICE&DRY]

Allora, correggetemi se sbaglio, la scale non è lineare, comunque credo che ci sia questa correlazione con la scala USA, più o meno:

M4= 5.8

M5= 5.9

M6=5.10

M7=5.11

M8=5.11+/5.12-

M9=5.12+/5.13-

M10=5.13+/5.14-

M11=5.14+/5.15-

M12=?

M13=?

M14=?

M15=?

[ICE&DRY]

Allora, correggetemi se sbaglio, la scale non è lineare, comunque credo che ci sia questa correlazione con la scala USA, più o meno:

M4= 5.8

M5= 5.9

M6=5.10

M7=5.11

M8=5.11+/5.12-

M9=5.12+/5.13-

M10=5.13+/5.14-

M11=5.14+/5.15-

M12=?

M13=?

M14=?

M15=?

Qualcuno conferma, smentisce, aggiunge?!

[ErniBrown]

Allora, correggetemi se sbaglio, la scale non è lineare, comunque credo che ci sia questa correlazione con la scala USA, più o meno:

M4= 5.8

M5= 5.9

M6=5.10

M7=5.11

M8=5.11+/5.12-

M9=5.12+/5.13-

M10=5.13+/5.14-

M11=5.14+/5.15-

M12=?

M13=?

M14=?

M15=?

Qualcuno conferma, smentisce, aggiunge?!

Ma è un confronto fra gradi di arrampicata e gradi di misto?! Se è così non mi sembra che abbia più di tanto senso...

[ICE&DRY]

Allora, correggetemi se sbaglio, la scale non è lineare, comunque credo che ci sia questa correlazione con la scala USA, più o meno:

M4= 5.8

M5= 5.9

M6=5.10

M7=5.11

M8=5.11+/5.12-

M9=5.12+/5.13-

M10=5.13+/5.14-

M11=5.14+/5.15-

M12=?

M13=?

M14=?

M15=?

Qualcuno conferma, smentisce, aggiunge?!

Ma è un confronto fra gradi di arrampicata e gradi di misto?! Se è così non mi sembra che abbia più di tanto senso...

E' ovvio che è un confronto.....
perché non dovrebbe avere senso??
I gradi M corrisponderanno a qualcosa o no?!
Se per caso volessi paragonare una via di dry tooling di M9 ad una via su roccia sportiva??

[ErniBrown]

Il confronto si può sicuramente fare, ma è un po' come paragonare un par 4 del golf a una pista automobilistica: le capacità tecniche e fisiche in gioco sono molto diverse. Poi se ti chiedi qual'è il grado medio che si fa nel dry tooling ok, puoi paragonarlo (chennesò) al 6a in falesia.

Già era difficile (e anche un po' inutile ) il confronto fra grado UIAA e grado francese, ma qui le similitudini fra le due scale diventano proprio poche.

[ICE&DRY]

Il confronto si può sicuramente fare, ma è un po' come paragonare un par 4 del golf a una pista automobilistica: le capacità tecniche e fisiche in gioco sono molto diverse. Poi se ti chiedi qual'è il grado medio che si fa nel dry tooling ok, puoi paragonarlo (chennesò) al 6a in falesia.

Già era difficile (e anche un po' inutile ) il confronto fra grado UIAA e grado francese, ma qui le similitudini fra le due scale diventano proprio poche.

era solo per cercare di mettere in relazione i gradi del dry tooling con quelli diciamo utilizzati in arrampicata sportiva...così per farsi un'idea...

[Tenzin]

su wiki ho trovato le definizioni dei gradi WI e M... solo in inglese, ma di facile comprensione...

M1-3: Easy. Low angle; usually no tools.
M4: Slabby to vertical with some technical dry tooling.
M5: Some sustained vertical dry tooling.
M6: Vertical to overhanging with difficult dry tooling.
M7: Overhanging; powerful and technical dry tooling; less than 10m of hard climbing.
M8: Some nearly horizontal overhangs requiring very powerful and technical dry tooling; bouldery or longer cruxes than M7.
M9: Either continuously vertical or slightly overhanging with marginal or technical holds, or a juggy roof of 2 to 3 body lengths.
M10: At least 10 meters of horizontal rock or 30 meters of overhanging dry tooling with powerful moves and no rests.
M11: A ropelength of overhanging gymnastic climbing, or up to 15 meters of roof.
M12: M11 with bouldery, dynamic moves and tenuous technical holds.

In più prova a fare il paragone con i gradi americani:
Mixed Ice Grading

Roughly follows the WI rating system with respect to its physical and technical demands. Typically starts at M4. Subgrades of "-" and "+" are commonly used, although the distinctions are typically very subjective. The following table makes a comparison with the WI system and the Yosemite Decimal System. Comparing these is rough, and only gives an idea of the relative difficulty; the reason different systems exist in the first place is because it's difficult to compare grades between climbing media.

M4 - 5.8 - WI4 - slabby to vertical, some technical drytooling

M5 - 5.9 - WI5 - some sections of sustained drytooling

M6 - 5.10 - WI6 - vertical to overhanging with some difficult drytooling

M7 - 5.11 - WI7 - overhanging, powerful and technical drytooling, <10 m of "hard" climbing

M8 - 5.11+ - bouldery or longer cruxes than M7, some horizontal overhangs

M9 - 5.12- - vertical or steeper with sustained marginal or highly technical drytooling; or horizontal and juggy for up to a few body lengths.

M10 - 5.12

M11 - 5.12+

M12 - 5.13-

Quelli WI invece sono stati inventati sulle montagne rocciose del Canada (Canadian Rockies) e bisogna sottolineare che:
"Grading in the Canadian Rockies, especially recently, focuses on the steepness of a pitch, and NOT on the more subjective "feeling of difficulty" (mental aspects, e.g. protectability, exposure, commitment, etc.) or "technical difficulty" (e.g. chandeliers, bonding, etc.) during the first ascent. Hence the downgrading of several notorious routes, e.g. Sea of Vapours, which were in poor conditions during the first ascents."

WI2 - low-angled (60 degree consistent ice), with good technique can be easily climbed with one ice axe

WI3 - generally sustained in the 60-70 degree range with occasional near-vertical steps up to 4 metres (Cascade Waterfall, Banff; This House of Sky, Ghost River)

WI4 - near-vertical steps of up to 10 metres, generally sustained climbing requiring placing protection screws from strenuous stances (Professor's Falls, Banff; Weeping Wall Left, Icefields Parkway, Banff; Silk Tassle, Yoho; Moonlight & Snowline, Kananskis)

WI4+ - highly technical WI4, notoriously as "hard" as WI5 or even WI6! (Wicked Wanda, Ghost River)

WI5 - near-vertical or vertical steps of up to 20 metres, sustained climbing requiring placing multiple protection screws from strenuous stances with few good rests (Carlsberg Column, Field; The Sorcerer, Ghost River; Bourgeau Left Hand, Banff)

WI5+ - highly technical WI5, often "harder" than WI6 (Oh le Tabernac, Icefield Parkway; Hydrophobia, Ghost River; Sacre Bleu, Banff)

WI6 - vertical climbing for the entire pitch (e.g. 30-60 metres) with no rests. Requires excellent technique and/or a high level of fitness (The Terminator, Banff; Nemesis, Kootenay Park; Whiteman Falls, Kananaskis Country; Riptide, Banff)

WI6+ - vertical or overhanging with no rests, and highly technical WI6 (French Maid, Yoho; French Reality, Kootenay Park)

WI7 - sustained and overhanging with no rests. Extremely rare, near-mythical, and widely accepted testpiece examples of this grade don't exist in the Canadian Rockies. Note that many routes (e.g. Sea of Vapours, Banff; Riptide, Icefield Parkway, Banff) have been assigned WI7- to WI7+ but have been subsequently downgraded in fatter years as they don't meet the strict criteria of steepness. In fact some local ice climbers have argued for Sea of Vapours (WI7+ originally) to be downgraded to WI5 or even WI4 simply because it's not steep enough.

Scusate se è un po' lunghetto... in realtà bastava andare su wikipedia... vabbo'... l'è li stes...

[ICE&DRY]

su wiki ho trovato le definizioni dei gradi WI e M... solo in inglese, ma di facile comprensione...

M1-3: Easy. Low angle; usually no tools.
M4: Slabby to vertical with some technical dry tooling.
M5: Some sustained vertical dry tooling.
M6: Vertical to overhanging with difficult dry tooling.
M7: Overhanging; powerful and technical dry tooling; less than 10m of hard climbing.
M8: Some nearly horizontal overhangs requiring very powerful and technical dry tooling; bouldery or longer cruxes than M7.
M9: Either continuously vertical or slightly overhanging with marginal or technical holds, or a juggy roof of 2 to 3 body lengths.
M10: At least 10 meters of horizontal rock or 30 meters of overhanging dry tooling with powerful moves and no rests.
M11: A ropelength of overhanging gymnastic climbing, or up to 15 meters of roof.
M12: M11 with bouldery, dynamic moves and tenuous technical holds.

In più prova a fare il paragone con i gradi americani:
Mixed Ice Grading

Roughly follows the WI rating system with respect to its physical and technical demands. Typically starts at M4. Subgrades of "-" and "+" are commonly used, although the distinctions are typically very subjective. The following table makes a comparison with the WI system and the Yosemite Decimal System. Comparing these is rough, and only gives an idea of the relative difficulty; the reason different systems exist in the first place is because it's difficult to compare grades between climbing media.

M4 - 5.8 - WI4 - slabby to vertical, some technical drytooling

M5 - 5.9 - WI5 - some sections of sustained drytooling

M6 - 5.10 - WI6 - vertical to overhanging with some difficult drytooling

M7 - 5.11 - WI7 - overhanging, powerful and technical drytooling, <10 m of "hard" climbing

M8 - 5.11+ - bouldery or longer cruxes than M7, some horizontal overhangs

M9 - 5.12- - vertical or steeper with sustained marginal or highly technical drytooling; or horizontal and juggy for up to a few body lengths.

M10 - 5.12

M11 - 5.12+

M12 - 5.13-

Quelli WI invece sono stati inventati sulle montagne rocciose del Canada (Canadian Rockies) e bisogna sottolineare che:
"Grading in the Canadian Rockies, especially recently, focuses on the steepness of a pitch, and NOT on the more subjective "feeling of difficulty" (mental aspects, e.g. protectability, exposure, commitment, etc.) or "technical difficulty" (e.g. chandeliers, bonding, etc.) during the first ascent. Hence the downgrading of several notorious routes, e.g. Sea of Vapours, which were in poor conditions during the first ascents."

WI2 - low-angled (60 degree consistent ice), with good technique can be easily climbed with one ice axe

WI3 - generally sustained in the 60-70 degree range with occasional near-vertical steps up to 4 metres (Cascade Waterfall, Banff; This House of Sky, Ghost River)

WI4 - near-vertical steps of up to 10 metres, generally sustained climbing requiring placing protection screws from strenuous stances (Professor's Falls, Banff; Weeping Wall Left, Icefields Parkway, Banff; Silk Tassle, Yoho; Moonlight & Snowline, Kananskis)

WI4+ - highly technical WI4, notoriously as "hard" as WI5 or even WI6! (Wicked Wanda, Ghost River)

WI5 - near-vertical or vertical steps of up to 20 metres, sustained climbing requiring placing multiple protection screws from strenuous stances with few good rests (Carlsberg Column, Field; The Sorcerer, Ghost River; Bourgeau Left Hand, Banff)

WI5+ - highly technical WI5, often "harder" than WI6 (Oh le Tabernac, Icefield Parkway; Hydrophobia, Ghost River; Sacre Bleu, Banff)

WI6 - vertical climbing for the entire pitch (e.g. 30-60 metres) with no rests. Requires excellent technique and/or a high level of fitness (The Terminator, Banff; Nemesis, Kootenay Park; Whiteman Falls, Kananaskis Country; Riptide, Banff)

WI6+ - vertical or overhanging with no rests, and highly technical WI6 (French Maid, Yoho; French Reality, Kootenay Park)

WI7 - sustained and overhanging with no rests. Extremely rare, near-mythical, and widely accepted testpiece examples of this grade don't exist in the Canadian Rockies. Note that many routes (e.g. Sea of Vapours, Banff; Riptide, Icefield Parkway, Banff) have been assigned WI7- to WI7+ but have been subsequently downgraded in fatter years as they don't meet the strict criteria of steepness. In fact some local ice climbers have argued for Sea of Vapours (WI7+ originally) to be downgraded to WI5 or even WI4 simply because it's not steep enough.

Scusate se è un po' lunghetto... in realtà bastava andare su wikipedia... vabbo'... l'è li stes...

Sembra migliore di quella che avevo scritto io...